Verderber world-wide – Michael Verderber, born the 11/12/1884 at Taubenbrunn

Question from Michael Verderber, Stuttgart, Germany, 17/7/2000, last modified 7/12/2004

My parents and I are living in Stuttgart. My great-grandfather Michael Verderber, born on 11/12/1884 at Taubenbrunn 1 (Golobinjek) near Gottschee, parish of Nesseltal (Koprivnik), emigrated from the Gottschee around the year 1900 and let down (registered by the police since 29/8/1907) at Graz (Austria) because he was a younger son and could not take a farm. Therefore our family was not hit by the resettlements and expulsions of the Second World War.

I discovered my great grandfather’s pedigree up to his great grandparents to the major part by the help of the family book entries in the church books of the Gottschee, but unfortunately not more. There is also left a series of open questions:

My great grandfather Michael Verderber was journeyman shoemaker and wandered for several years. Unfortunately we know almost nothing about this time and the time before his settlement at Graz. Among others he is said to have been in Germany in village named Primosen. But we could not find this village on any map.

Who is able to help me?

The parents of my great grandfather are Michael Verderber, born on 6/3/1851 at Tscheplach (Čeplje), parish of Unterdeutschau (Nemška Loka), and Margaretha Tscherne (also written as “Černe”), born on 4/3/1846 at Stockendorf 10 (Planina). Michael Verderber seems to have been cattle owner; for a while the family lived in lodgins presumable at Lichtenbach 20 (Svetli Potok), parish of Nesseltal. When their son married on 18/2/1912, Margaretha Tscherne was already dead while Michael Verderber lived somewhere in the Mösel parish (Mozelj). I do not know much more. Especially I do not know where and when the both died. It is only sure that Michael Verderber did not die until 1914, because he visited his grandchildren during the First World War at Graz.

Furthermore I only know the birth date of a lot of ancestors but not their death date or date and place of their marriage.

Who knows more?

Margaretha Tscherne (my great grandfather’s mother) had at least two illegitimate children when she married Michael Verderber (published the banns in 1877 at Nesseltal). Father (possibly Michael Verderber) and surnames of these children are unknown. They are Catharina Senen (obviously named after the holy Katharina of Siena (Catharina Senensis)), born on 20/4/1877 at Stockendorf 10, and Johann, born on 20/10/1873 at Taubenbrunn 1. Their fate is unknown, and also if there are more siblings.

My great uncle (brother of my grandfather), also named Michael Verderber, told me that a brother and a sister of my great grandfather emigrated about 1906 to the United States of America. It can be supposed that they are Johann and Catharina, but we do not know the names. The sister is said to have married a hotel owner at New York.

My great uncle became prisoner of war by the American troops in September 1944 in France. There he met a sergeant Verderber whose father lived at Minnesota, in former times searched for gold, and probably was the emigrated brother of my great-grandfather. But unfortunately my great-uncle lost the sergeant’s address.

I am looking for information about my great grandfather’s siblings and their descendants.

The grandfather of my great grandfather was Michael Verderber, born on 29/9/1814 at Oberberg (Gorenje Podgora), parish of Altenmarkt at the Kulpa river (Stari trg ob Kolpi) – if we believe his family book entry of Tscheplach, where he settled down. But he cannot be found in the baptism book of Altenmarkt. In 1812–19 there is only registered another child with the same name, but born on 25/4/1813 at Oberberg, with the parents Georgius Ferderbar and Maria Kump. On the other side I got information that Michael Verderber’s marriage entry tells Georg Verderber and Maria Osterman as his parents.

So, it can be supposed that Georg Verderber = Georgius Ferderbar had two children named Michael, and the first of them was born on 25/4/1813 and died with his mother Maria Kump shortly after his birth. After that Georg Verderber could have married Maria Osterman, and from her he could have got the second child named Michael at 29/9/1814. (Obviously it was usual in the Gottschee to give a name repeatedly to get a surviving child of this name.) But unfortunately there is no fitting entry in the marriage book of Altenmarkt for the period 1812–14, and – as said above – the birth entry is missing, too.

Who knows more what can proof or refute this presumption?

I have created a pedigree of my great grandfather describing the actual state of knowledge und the assumed connections and also containing a lot of collateral lines. You get it on special pages under pedigree of Michael Verderber, born 11/12/1884.

Explanations to the pedigree:

Used terms for kernel Austria: Until 7/2/1867 “Österreich” (as part of the Austrian empire, to which Hungary belonged), 8/2/1867–20/10/1918 “Österreich, Österreich-Ungarn” (as part of the Double Monarchy Austria-Hungary), 21/10/1918–12/3/1938 Österreich (Republic), 13/3/1938–26/4/1945 “Österreich, Großdeutsches Reich” (after the “union” as part of the German country whose name I do not want to use for that period which had special consequences after the war concerning the nationality of Germans and Austrians), since 27/4/1945 “Österreich”.

The relation of the region Krain and therefore the Gottschee to their countries during the course of the history is more difficult. They belonged to Austria until 1918; after that it is getting complicated. Luckily this pedigree yet is playing in the Gottschee before 1918, so I needed not to create nomenclature for the time after that. In autumn of 1918 the Krain and the Gottschee belonged for a short period to the State of the Slovenes, Croats and Serbs (“SHS-State”), but I have no details. In November 1918 Italia occupied a part of the Krain which was given to Yugoslavia in 1947. The greater rest (including the Gottschee) and the whole SHS-State were united with Serbia to the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slowenes (SHS) at 1/12/1918 which was renamed to Yugoslavia (South Slavia) at 6/1/1929. Beginning at 10/4/1941 Germany and its allies divided Yugoslavia after having defeated it. The Gottschee came to Italy at 12/4/1941 (and therefore the Gottscheer people with few exceptions were resettled since 14/11/1941). 1945 the Gottschee came back to Yugoslavia. Since the independence declaration of Slovenia at 25/6/1991 (internationally accepted at 15/1/1992) the Gottschee belongs – along with the Krain – to Slovenia.

Abbreviations: Geb. = Born, Beru. = Profession, Rel. = Religion (Religion of baptism), Verh. = Married, Gest. = Died, Wohns. = Residence. At most one residence is told.

German terms: Kinder = Children, Gatten = Spouses, Unehelich = Illegitimate, Gemeinde = Community.

Nesseltal is always written in the older form Nesselthal.

Electronic mail: Briefkasten under Verderber in org.